Transcript Bhau Kalchuri Video

Part One

Interview with V. S. (Bhau) Kalchuri
13 February 2013
Trust Office, Ahmednagar, India

Given by request with permission to use for the Katie Irani video series Part #9. Copyright protected AMBPPCTrust

V.S. (Bhau) Kalchuri: Just one minute … (waits for his family members to appear) ... Jatin and Mehernath?

(Camera shows Bhau's wife Rama has just arrived, their son Mehernath is on his way.)

Tech question: Bhauji, would you like to give a message to test the sound?

Bhau: All right. My message is that the Trust is depending upon spiritual training. What is spiritual training? Baba has given during New Life. Those who did not do this, they should just do for Me. For Me, they should follow the rules.

(Mehernath Kalchuri arrives, chair being placed next to Bhau for him.)

Bhau: Raj ka? Where is Raj? (Mehernath's wife)

Mehernath Kalchuri: Raj has gone to purchasing things (in city)…

Bhau: And Jatin? (Mehernath and Raj's younger son, Zubin the older son is in Australia at this timing.)

Mehernath: Jatin is taking lunch.

Bhau: Lunch?

Mehernath: (nods) Lunch.

Bhau: This is time for lunch?

Mehernath: Yes…

Interview question: Are you ready to begin Bhauji?

Bhau: Yes.

Interview question: Do you remember last time we were asking you, for the last couple of years, pilgrims …are asking everyone, what is mandali…, what is Circle…, they never met any of you…some of them are very new…they don't even know you exist - that's how new they are…some of them may not even be knowing who (Meher) Baba is… in the MPR dining hall, the other pilgrims and some residents are attempting to answer their questions…and sometimes they really don't know what to say…we would really rather hear from you, your family. Who are mandali?

What do we say to them?

How do we answer this?

Bhau: The only answer is, mandali - that…those who were with (Meher) Baba, they are called mandali. Those who served Him while living with Him. Day to day order, Baba would give, it is not that He would not give…but yes, they would not say, "why this and why that?" No. (Baba) "Just follow." And then of course, they would follow.

Now just see this photo (points to a photo of his family, son Mehernath, daughter Sheela, and wife Rama - photo is passed around the room.) Baba said to me, "They are the future Trust Foundation. They are really very clever. Don't think they are just like this (children of Bhau)."

Here, (points at the photo) 4 yrs old, Mehernath, and Sheela 5 1/2 yrs - one month more (looks at his wife Rama seated during this interview next to Bhau). Mehernath is 4 yrs and she is 5 1/2 and one month more.

They were just in Arangaon (Family quarters), at that time. Baba would send His own car to bring them (to Meherazad), and they will come. Just see this photo, who is there. Mehernath, Sheela, I, and Ramadevi. I said, "Baba, why do you waste your time?"

Baba said, "You have no idea what they will do in future."

Now, I find yes, His words are the Truth. Whatever He said is happening. Mehernath, this is Mehernath. Sheela is not here, but you can take (see) Sheela's picture, 5 1/2 and one month more. Mehernath, this is Mehernath (points to Mehernath sitting next to him). Sheela is not here. But Sheela, you can take Sheela's picture, 5 1/2 and one month more.

(Electricity fluctuations, power stabilizers beeping in the background.)

Your question, this is the answer. Whatever Baba has said, according to that they are doing their work. Now they go from place to place, not only here, but in other countries. This year, now he is starting America. Up till now, two sons, they are in Australia. People would think that he has come just to meet the sons. But no, he would give talk. Then they would think, "Oh! He is very good in giving talk." But they also don't know what Baba has said about them.

I am telling this, that mandali, those who were with Baba, they were called mandali. I was called mandali, Eruch, Pendu, Mani, Mehera, they were all mandali. Meheru, I was just thinking now everyone passed away. Now Meheru is younger than me, she should live. I wanted to go first but she went first. I was waiting for that. Now, I am the only one who lived with Baba, wrote Lord Meher, 20 volumes, and other books, so many books I have written, Meher Sarod.

Part Two

Bhau Kalchuri interview in his room in the Trust compound, Ahmednagar
13 Feb 2013

Mehernath: Meher Sarod, Meher Roshani, Meher Geetika, Meher Kiran, Lord Meher 20 volumes, Meher Darshan in poetic form, the whole of Baba's life, previously in 1960's Meher Jyoti, twice he has written, 1960's and then 1962 2nd edition, and a lot of changes are there, then Prem Mahima - Baba's play, Divya Leela, Jai Meher, Puja, You Alone Exist, Nothing and Everything, Avatar Meher Baba Manifesting, While the World Slept, all these books…now Ancient One, Nectar for the Children, Meher Baba's New Life, Awakenings, Part One, Awakenings Part Two will come.

Bhau: He knows all the books, I have forgotten (all laugh) what I wrote.

Mehernath: Meher Geetsuda, has to be published, many books are there…Hindi books…poetic form…in future, maybe I will publish that…it will come out…it is in Hindi…first, mandali, we should ask a question to Bhauji, what about Baba's first mandali like Chhagan Master, Sadashiv Patel was there, Bailey, Dr. Ghani Mushiji, Ramjoo Ali, Punjab Tilla?, all these people, they were with Baba in Manzil-e-Meem, in Pune, they were also mandali members (Bhau nods affirmative).. Bhauji has written in one book…

Baba told Bhauji when Bhauji was (living) in Meherazad, somebody asked about the mandali, who are the mandali?

At that time Baba said, "Who remains there in Meherazad, they are all mandali members. Who stays outside of Meherazad, they are My lovers."

Interview question: Bhauji, one time last time, you mentioned that what mandali is, is that they would obey directly from the heart. They wouldn't question (Baba) from their head. (repeats louder for Bhau to hear) Do you remember when you were saying about what is the mandali?

Bhau: Yes, yes. (nods affirmative)

Interview question: Can you say something about that?

Bhau: Heart and mind…heart takes one inside, mind takes everywhere, outside. Mind does not reach heart.

Interview question: About the mandali members, they had to listen to Baba from their hearts?

Bhau: Yes. We did not know…now we use our mind, but this mind is secondary. First is heart. Whatever heart says, we just follow.

Mehernath: Mandali used to listen, mandali used to obey, you know…without question most of the time, what Baba used to say. They used to use Meher Baba's mind only, Universal mind, not their own mind. Who remains for a longer period with Meher Baba, His close ones, they are the mandali members (repeats).

Bhau: An example I tell you. First thing, when Baba called me, I was M. A., M.Sc., LLB. I was doing PhD. He called me, and I left everything, and went to Him. First I met Him in Saoner. That is the place where first Baba, I met Him first. I did not know…He gave me one banana. Just get out! He did not say, "Get out!" (chuckles) But the queue…I said (thought), "I did not meet Him. I wanted to talk to Him."

Next day, again darshan. I went there, same thing happened. Baba would just kiss anyone, and give banana. He did not kiss me. He did not give…one banana He gave…and then I was driven out…, volunteers were there, and they were just (gestures) "Go!" Thousands were there. I just left.

Two days, same thing happened. Third day, Baba went to Nagpur. Nagpur, this is (the place of) my University. I will take Him to my University (big grin). But you know, Geeta Mandir, there is Geeta Mandir…there Baba was giving darshan. Same thing happened.

But one person, his name is…I forget…Vibhuti Maharaj, he was there. He says, "I will just take you. Not here, where He lives, that is the place. You come this time." He gave me the time. At the time, I just forget that I am so qualified (highly educated). And, "Baba treats me like this…No!" No, no (such) thought…then of course I went to Him, and then, strict instruction…

He (Meher Baba) was asking me, "Will you do this?"

Baba asked,"That spiritual training, what is that spiritual training, do you know?

It is not easy. If I ask you to become naked, will you become naked?"

That picture is there. (points to his graduation picture with cap and gown). "Yes, Baba." (drinks water) (Baba says), "Become naked and go for bhiksha (begging) in this locality, where I was living." I said, "Yes." (Baba said), "Begin."

So I (began to) take off the clothes, then He said, "Now sit down." (all chuckle) Then He said, "If you come to me I will just give any order. Will you obey?" I said, "Yes, Baba. I will obey." (Baba said), "Forget this MSc and PhD, forget this. Just, if I say do this and do that, will you do that?" "Yes." Everything, (I said), "Yes." Then He said, "All right. Just now, for the Andhra Tour, I am going there. Andhra. Then of course, there you come and I will tell you what you have to do." I said, "Yes, Baba."

Now Nana Kher, (from) Nagpur, he was my friend. We both went to Andhra. But in the train, Baba sat down, (and asked me), "What are you doing?"

I said, "I am doing PhD Baba, writing the thesis." Baba says, "That thesis you are writing, you have to forget that. If you just come to me and follow my order, will you do that?" I said, "Yes Baba." Andhra Tour, nothing, just this order, "Will you obey?"

(Bhau said), "Yes.

(Baba said), "On such and such date, you come there.

I forgot the PhD and went and joined Him. Since then I am with Him. One naked mast…mast I did not know (what is a mast), the duty….He gave me. "Just look after this (mast)…" I was looking after him. That man, mad (mast), he would make everything dirty (soiled). Every day Baba would say, "This is not good. Clean this, it is not clean." Then I would not say anything.

But one day, I determined, I would just be with him…whole night…till Baba comes…I must not give him a chance to make anything dirty. I was cleaning, and by morning everything (was) neat and clean. Then I was near the door waiting for Baba. Baba was coming, "Oh! Today He will feel happy." As soon as He came, He said, "Do you want to kill my mast?" Wall fell down, intact wall! How did it happen? I could not understand! It fell down!

Baba was there in Dehra Dun, wall fell down, and I said, "Oh! There is something here, internal. Everything I had cleaned, and wall was intact. How could it fall down?"

He (Baba) said, "Be careful. He is a mast. He knows everything. Don't think that he does not know. He knows that you are MSc. This mast, he has no education. But his education is real education. Even if I see him naked, don't think that he is naked - that he has no shame. He remains naked."

Interview question: Bhauji, I think the reason you are telling this story is to give an example of obedience. In your own words, can you tell a new pilgrim why you are telling this story. Can you introduce this story, why you are telling this story - is it about obedience, or who a mandali is…for a new pilgrim, they won't understand why you are telling this story?

Interview question: (question is repeated)Bhauji she is asking you to explain why you are telling this story. Is it an example of obedience to Him. She would like you to tell the meaning behind the story.

Bhau: The meaning is that, obedience. I learned just to obey Baba. Since then, nothing, thoughts will come in my mind, but I will not obey thoughts, I will obey Him, whatever He would say.

Interview question: (You would listen only to…) …the heart.

Bhau: (nods affirmative) The heart.

Part Three

Bhau Kalchuri interview in his room in the Trust compound, Ahmednagar
12 Feb 2013

Interview Question: Can you talk a little more about the mandali and obedience coming from their heart, not their head?

Bhau: Yes. Everyone would just follow whatever He would say, just follow. To follow Him is not easy. Many came, and …from Pune, everywhere…but they could not - they would ask different things. But Baba would say, He would tell. Other mandali members they were there, Eruch, was a mandali member, but he would just reply (nods affirmative)…

Interview Question: When Baba dropped His body, you just said that mandali would come and go…there were 14 mandali members when Baba dropped His body…can you talk about that time (31 Jan 1969) and how many were there?

Bhau: (misunderstands the question): Just one, I am left.

Interview Question: (clarifies) 1969, January 31st, 1969, there were 14 mandali members there.

Bhau: Yes.

Interview Question: Can you tell us about that?

Bhau: What to tell? When the question of heart comes…no nothing, they are the followers.

(Namaz prayers in the background, from the nearby Mosque with speakers, outside the Trust compound).

Follower means, real follower…, not like follow this and follow that…no…

Mehernath: Can I tell the name of mandali members (who were living with Him when He dropped His body in) 1969?

Kaka Baria, Baidul, Francis, Kaikobad, Pendu, Eruch Jessawala, Bhau Kalchuri, Mehera, Meheru, Naja, Rano, Mani, Dr. Goher - all these people they were there.

In Ahmednagar Adi K. Irani was there, in Meherabad Padri Faredoon Driver, William Donkin was there, and Mansari. They were here in Meherabad, Meherazad, and Ahmednagar.

Sarosh also, he was there. He died in 1971, I think. Chhagan (Master) was there…at Ahmednagar.

Vishnu died (previously)…Meherjee Karkaria was there, he was in Pune. In Ahmednagar, Meherazad and Meherabad, these people were there. Valu, she was there,(in Arangaon) she was a mandali member also.

Interview Question: Bhauji, was there anything else that you would like new pilgrims to know, about who is Circle, who is mandali, of any of these things most people do not understand? Anything more you would like to say to them (new pilgrims)?

Bhau: No, this much I know, that I am the only one here, left out. Baba appeared in my vision, and He said, "Don't worry. This is not my wish, but my lovers wish. You pull on, though the difficulty for you will be doubled, and internal pain, it will be doubled. But, don't worry. I will help you."

So I am just carrying on now. Now, 15th March (2012), that was the date Baba had given that I will drop my body. But, (in the vision) He said, "Now, my lovers wish…, so you have to pull on, one year more. So I was carrying on. I look outwardly very happy (big smile). But inwardly, you have no idea what pain I am suffering from.

Interview Question: Bhauji, you are telling this to new pilgrims. Why are you telling them about you being the last one…? They may not understand...

Bhau: They may not understand? So, they try to understand….about obedience…

Interview Question: What about the obedience…that you were the last one means that you obeyed Baba, and you are the last one, and…?

Mehernath: No, mandali members, he is telling about being the last mandali member…what happens, Bhauji told about obedience…this is what Bhauji remembers…he spent the time with Baba…a close one…and what he remembers he is telling that…

Interview Question: Anything else Bhauji?

Bhau: No.

Mehernath: I think it is in Lord Meher, and in Bhauji's books, notebooks also published and unpublished, he explained about the mandali, he explained about everything, and in the future it will give help to us. Everything is there. Carefully we have to read, and we will get the knowledge of everything.

Bhauji has written everything. Everything he has written. What is the mandali. What Baba said. Time to time, Baba said about the mandali…inner circle and that, everything in included in his books, published and unpublished book…and in future, when people read carefully, it will come out. They will get the knowledge…, perfect knowledge.

Interview Question: What is the difference between mandali and circle member?

Bhau: (laughs out loud) They are also Circle member…, mandali, because His Circle, it is not different. It goes on, ten Circles…

Interview Question: Can the Circle members be out in the world also?

Bhau: Yes.

Interview Question: Anywhere?

Bhau: Yes. Chhagan Master is an example. He was the one, who would just, whenever Baba would call him, he would come. He was living in Arangaon (near to Meherabad).

Mehernath: (He lived in) Bhingar.

Bhau: No, no, first in Arangaon, then in Bhingar. When Baba left for New Life, then he was (with his wife) in Bhingar (village near to Ahmednagar Trust office).

Interview Question: Bhauji, recently you have been telling us that you are just the medium. Are all mandali mediums? What does that mean?

Bhau: When He dropped the body, they carry on the work, what He has to do. He just gives advice through vision. He appears in my vision. In my vision, Baba is there for any thing.

Interview Question: Since how long (has Baba appeared in your vision)?

Bhau: Just like a dream...

Interview Question: Has it been recent, or since a long time, many years?

Bhau: Yes…, from time to time...

Interview Question: …from time to time throughout the years?

Bhau: Yes.

Interview Question: After He dropped His body?

Bhau: Yes.

Interview Question: Bhauji, you are saying that the mandali are mediums…

(Bhau nods affirmative.)

Interview Question: Do they all play the same role, or they play different roles?

Bhau: According to the work, they just complete that work, reliably.

Interview Question: Does anyone else have any questions?

Interview Question: Bhauji, you started to say about the Ten Circles, did you want to say more?

Bhau: 120 in the whole pattern, 12 each, just like now there are so many but they are outer circle, Chhagan outer, not inner...

Mehernath: …Adi K., Sarosh, Meherji, Padri, (Bhau nods affirmative) Mansari
Valu, inner or outer?

Bhau: Inner. All the Circle members, 10 Circles, they just come one after another. In the beginning, of course, when Baba was there, people would come and meet Him. So they will always be in the Circle, inner Circle.

Interview question: Bhauji, you have been talking recently about whether the mandali come back, and which ones have to come back, and which ones are finished (with His work)…

Bhau: I know this much. I am the one, and then Eruch, and Mani, They will come back.

Mehernath: For one life.

Interview Question: As Perfect Masters, all three of them? Baba said Mani would be a Perfect Master.

Bhau: No, that is left out work (uncompleted) they will do. Baba is not in body. So certain things, of course, body is required. Through that body He works.

Interview Question: Since Baba dropped His body, how is He using the mandali?

Bhau: (chuckles) That is the mystery! How He is using the mandali. He has given the work to everyone. What work they don't know, what work they have to do. But they do, automatically. He appears in my vision. But for others, I don't know how He appears, but He gives the order though He has dropped the body. Because it is His work.

Interview Question: To summarize, this is for new pilgrims, to give them some idea who are the mandali, how to value them, what does that have to do with their own relationship with Baba…, anything to add to that?

Bhau: Loudly.

Interview Question: Bhauji, she is saying to summarize, this is for the new people who do not know the mandali, do not know their significance or their role with Him, or the value of the mandali, and to answer those questions that people might have.

Interview Question: Are the mandali like guiding lights, or how do they interpret who they are…

Interview Question: How are new people to interpret the mandali? As spiritual guides, as …in their relationship with Baba, who are the mandali?

Bhau: They are just, they appear. They know, they follow…know well, whatever He has said about these mandali, those who follow the rules, (His) order, they are the mandali -100% - not for selfishness.

Here they come, so many come, and then they give talk only talk, but they don't follow that. They are not the mandali. mandali, that is , this "I" does not come.

Interview Question: Anything else?

Interview Question: Bhauji, sometimes you tell us funny stories about the type of treatment that Baba would give the mandali, as compared to other people. Like, other people, like Pune Center people,…do you want to talk about that kind of treatment that Baba gave you and others?

Bhau: What work He has given, I also don't know, but I do. I do. He appeared in my vision. He says, often, that "I am satisfied. You are doing very well. But don't worry."

Just now He appeared in the vision, and He said, "Listen carefully. This is not my wish, this is my lovers wish. I have to follow my lovers wish, so you also follow, whatever they have said. They expressed their wish. So, yes, do it. I will help you." He appeared in my vision, from time to time, when I feel confused (about) what to do. He guides me.